LGF Delinks Pajamas Media! (UPDATED)

September 15, 2009

The blog wars are out of control right now. First Powerline Blog made a point to publicly de-link Little Green Footballs:

We have slightly updated our blogroll for the first time time in a long time. We have deleted Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs. We long ago stopped reading LGF Suffice it to say (suffice it for me to say, anyway) that Charles’s political inclinations and interests now diverge widely from our own.

At the same time we welcome Gateway Pundit and Big Hollywood.

The public de-linking and addition of Gateway pundit prompted the following comment by Charles in one of his comment threads [emphasis in red added]:

re: #796 Gus 802

OK, I just read his delinking post. He removed LGF and added Gateway Pundit? I started laughing when I read that.

That’s right. Pathetic, isn’t it? They’re hitching their wagon to a borderline illiterate bigot who thinks it’s the height of wit to post pictures of Obama as Hitler.

Good riddance. They’re removed from my links too.

This is on top of a bitter exchange over the alleged racism of Robert Stacy McCain. You can follow that exchange by visiting the following links:

1) A Response to Charles Johnson

2) A Response to Stephen Green (With Link)

3) Robert Stacy McCain’s Angry Departure From the Washington Times

4) Point One: Charles Johnson doesn’t know me from Adam’s housecat

5) Point Two: Charles Johnson is prejudiced, and subscribes to stereotypes

6) Point Three: Charles Johnson will regret it but once, and that will be continuously

Now Charles has reported that he has removed all links to Pajamas Media because, among other reasons, they are headlining a McCain article on their front page:

I’ve removed all links to Pajamas Media from LGF.

Wow. Didn’t Charles co-found Pajamas Media? It is startling to see how much has changed over the years.

We find this whole sordid mess completely depressing. We here at Founding Bloggers consider ourselves friends with almost everyone involved in this fight, and we hate to see all this pixelated blood spilled.

Because Founding Bloggers has, at one time or another, advertised on almost all of the websites involved, and because we have personally worked with many of the people connected to this issue, we have decided that this is an appropriate moment to chime in with at least one point. It is our sincere hope not to inject ourselves into the middle of this, again because we have profound respect for many of the people involved in this fight, including Charles Johnson, but it is our experience with these people that compels us to offer at least one observation.

Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit is not a “borderline illiterate bigot.”  We have worked with Jim on several projects dating back a couple of years, and our personal experience with him is nothing short of a complete pleasure. We have seen exactly zero indication of either illiteracy, or bigotry. Jim has never displayed even the slightest hint of any form of bigotry or hatred, other than towards Jihadis and people who support them (think Code Pink).

Every personal experience we have ever had with Jim Hoft has revealed him to be a world-class gentleman with a terrific sense of humor. He’s a guy who is fun to work with and be around.

If Jim Hoft is a bigot, he is the kind who appears to enjoy the company of Jews, black people, and anti-jihad Muslims. In fact, we would go so far as to say, and others would likely agree, the Jewish and anti-Jihad Muslim community has a tremendous friend in Jim Hoft.  That’s some bigot.

As for Robert Stacy McCain, we have met him on two occasions, the second being when he base camped with the rest of the PJTV crew, at the Founding Bloggers HQ in Denver during the Democrat Convention last year.

We would have to echo Steven Green’s comments in his response to Charles:

So, is Robert Stacy McCain a white supremacist? Hell if I know. But he enjoys breaking bread with agnostic half Jews like me, which would certainly make him a different kind of white supremacist.

That being said, we would like to hear more from Robert about his comments on interracial marriage, as well as some of the other accusations made in this article. If the comments attributed to him are accurate, they are disturbing.

“[T]he media now force interracial images into the public mind and a number of perfectly rational people react to these images with an altogether natural revulsion. The white person who does not mind transacting business with a black bank clerk may yet be averse to accepting the clerk as his sister-in-law, and THIS IS NOT RACISM, no matter what Madison Avenue, Hollywood and Washington tell us.”

Yes, you read that right: a “natural revulsion” and “THIS IS NOT RACISM.”

That was posted by Robert Stacy McCain (who has contributed to New York Press in the past) on a website called Reclaiming the South. The Washington Times editor posts a lot on the right-wing FreeRepublic.com as well, using an assumed name (BurkeCalhounDabney) but often linking back to his personal website, where there are photos of him and the rest of his large family of Seventh Day Adventists (and which identifies him by his real name and as a Washington Times editor). Editor McCain, who hails from Rome, GA, is one of those Confederate types who still hasn’t gotten over the Civil War and is trying to get the South to secede. He’s a member of a Southern secessionist organization called League of the South. Here’s a quote from that group’s leader, Michael Hill:

“The day of Southern guilt is over–THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT–and let us not forget that salient fact. NO APOLOGIES FOR SLAVERY should be made. In both the Old and New Testaments slavery is sanctioned and regulated according to God’s word. Thus, when practiced in accord with Holy Scripture, it is NOT A SIN.

Robert? [Please see McCain's lengthy rebuttles to the charges of racism, especially this one, as well as update II below]


We want to add that one of the aspects that is so frustrating about this particular blog war, is what is getting lost in the shuffle. Charles is making some extremely valid points that need to be critically examined.

We do not want our defense of Jim Hoft to serve as an excuse to pile on Charles Johnson. We would rather turn it into a chance to bring some attention to the things LGF has been writing about with which we vehemently agree.

He has devoted more than one post to the Obama-Hitler signs on display at Tea Parties. We, too, find them disgusting and counterproductive, and have said so publicly. See the video below, which we produced from the Chicago Tax Day Tea Party.

Charles is correct about this, and we really wish people would stop it with the Hitler crap.

Also, this blog believes Charles is 100% correct when it comes to teaching creationism as science in public schools. We fully support teaching it as a philosophy, and we also believe private institutions should be free to teach it as science if they want, even if it is not what we consider to be the correct or intelligent choice. But we have backed Charles on this issue in the past, and continue to be against teaching creationism as science in public classrooms.

That being said, creationists should be defended to the end for the right to believe what they want to, so long as they do not tread on me.

People ought to also remember that Charles has been plenty right about a whole lot of things in the past. It seems to us unwise and completely unwarranted to write him off over these disagreements. You may disagree with the behavior of anyone and everyone in the blog war, but in the words of Rodney King:  can’t we all just get along? After all Charles has contributed to what we all know as the blogosphere, his opinions about associations with possible fascists, his critique of what he sees in the Tea Party movement, and his criticisms of the Nirther movement, deserve to be weighed with the respect he has earned.


We spoke at great length with RS McCain today, and we are satisfied with what he had to say about the above comments. To sum up, here is what he told us:

1) The quote about interracial marriage is taken out of context, and is more about ethnographic-genetic philosophy than race (our conclusion). While we personally do not accept the premise being discussed in the quote, to the degree which we can divine intent, we do not feel that McCain’s motive was any kind of overt racism. It is possible to be wrong on issues related to race without being racist. Some people will probably disagree with that conclusion but there you are.

2) The quote on slavery is not his, and he rejects slavery. Let’s repeat that…RS McCain rejects slavery. So far, if he is a racist, he’s not a proud one like David Duke or Louis Farrakhan, as is evidenced by his extensive attempt to distance himself from the very things he is accused of embracing.

3) RS McCain appears to be an unapologetic supporter of the memory of  the Confederacy. We might be naive, but again, his motive appears to have much more to do with a philosophy about the federal government vis-a-vis states’ rights. It is immoral to suggest that the states have a right to hold slaves, and McCain goes out of his way to reiterate he does not support slavery, a point he feels silly making in his own defense. Since we do not believe the Civil War was exclusively about slavery, we can see how someone might sympathize with the Confederate position while not being racist. We here at Founding Bloggers do not have any fondness for the Confederacy, but we very much believe in the rights of others to hold opinions which are at odds with our own beliefs.

Recently McCain has been accused of being a “white supremacist blogger.” We have been looking over his site, and have found absolutely no content that would support this characterization. Please notify us immediately if anyone finds content to the contrary.

We have spent a great deal of time on this matter and spoken with many people to glean their judgment and wisdom on this matter. The consensus from people who know him far better than we do is that RS McCain might be many things (and there were some humorous off color adjectives), but racist is not one that comes to mind of anyone we spoke with.

Lastly, recently we have been asked to de-link this person or that person for various crimes against blogmanity related to this fight. We refuse to de-link anyone. This blog prides itself on staying connected to views and opinions we agree with and ones we do not agree with. Take a look at our blogroll and you will see that we even link to Daily Kos, even though much of what comes out of there is sewage. Please do not look at our blogroll as any kind of endorsement or sanction. We link to lots of people for lots of reasons, and reflexively react negatively to persuasion to de-link anyone.

There you go. We hope this puts the matter to rest, although we are nearly certain it will not.

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76 Responses to LGF Delinks Pajamas Media! (UPDATED)

  1. Suzanne on September 16, 2009 at 3:37 am

    Sorry, Johnson is over the edge. There is no defending him any longer.

    I had a posting account a LGF for several years. I rarely commented but read it several times a day. I noticed that he would have more postings about anti-Intelligent Design each day as time went on. They were boring since I visited his site for his other interesting information. One day, I decided to comment. It went something like this.

    I don’t care one way or the other if Evolution and/or Creationism is taught. Teach one, both or none. But please, Charles, enough of this. Get back to doing what you do so well.

    My post was deleted after numerous attacks by the “henchmen”, including accusations of my being something like a Nazi supporter, comments about what a loser I was for having only a handful of comments on record, etc etc.

    My next posting was something like: “WOW – what a response. Well, I have enjoyed my time here. Time to move along. Good luck, Charles”.

    That post was deleted too. Along with a snarky comment by THE ONE himself blocking my account.

    Yes, Charles DID excellent work. He doesn’t do it any longer. Benedict Arnold was a great soldier too, until he lost HIS mind. Past excellence doesn’t excuse current behavior.

  2. Robert on September 16, 2009 at 6:32 am


    I hope this will suffice as Robert Stacy McCain’s reply to the questions above.

  3. Joel on September 16, 2009 at 6:46 am

    “I’m still laughing at your original post, defending RSM’s revulsion at interracial marriage as perfectly normal behavior.”

    Define “normal.” Because most people and cultures around the world are indeed not very big fans of interracial marriage/sexual relationships.

    So laugh all you want. But you’re the one who is displaying abnormal viewpoints, not Reggie.

    “As for Richard Spencer, Taki Magazine’s editor — he told me to my face that he was a proud white nationalist”

    And? While I personally would not define myself as a “white nationalist,” I am a believer that race does matter. Perhaps my views and those of Spencer are outside of the liberal mainstream of acceptability, and you’re counting on that to make your case against him. But self-righteous “outings” of social taboos is not enough to show that such viewpoints are wrong.

  4. Joel on September 16, 2009 at 6:53 am

    Mark Tinder writes:

    “It is, indeed, sad to see a once-great mind brought down by paranoia, and/or an over-stimulated sense of self-righteousness.”

    Charles Johnson was never a great mind. Yes, he did some good work during Rathergate. But posting article blurbs and links you snatched off your RSS feed while providing little to no original and intellectually-substantial commentary of your own does not a great mind make. Any idiot with a room temperature IQ can start a blog and post other people’s work.

  5. Doc Neaves on September 16, 2009 at 7:16 am

    Just a couple of points. I agree with Reggie about the interracial marriage. Somehow, we’ve all been told we’re racists if we don’t want to marry blacks or mexicans or whatever. Tell me this…why is it racist for whites, but not for them? Why does EVERYONE have to believe it’s okay or be called a racist? Why are only white people called racists? And why is racism so bad? I can see discriminating being bad, but that’s the person who discriminates’ problem, or loss. But aren’t we all allowed to feel how we want? So screw you for telling me there’s something wrong with me for not wanting to marry a black person.

    Secondly, you can teach Creationism in schools all you want, just as soon as you find ONE SINGLE SCIENTIFIC piece of support for your THEORY. Darwin’s Theory of Evolution has tons of evidence behind it, but you creationists think that by saying it’s not a complete line, you denigrate the validity, but all you do is denigrate your own validity. Science isn’t made up of all the answers, but you have none, and want us to throw our ideas out because we don’t have ALL POSSIBLE MUTATIONS on the table to show you. And if we did? You’d say that didn’t come from that, it’s obviously different.

    Mutations happen over a long time or over a short time, depending upon why they happen at all. Without impetus, there would be no change. With impetus, it’s not that the animals themselves change, it’s that their offspring live or die according to how well they’ve adapted, and over time, that larger ear or bigger eye or keener sense of smell allows those who have it to survive and thrive, thereby being over-represented in the collective gene pool, and thereby pushing the species in one direction or another. You ridicule what you won’t study, and say it gives no answers when it gives millions, but because it doesn’t sound as good to you as “God me me”, you reject it. Fine, that’s your belief, and I and millions of others risk, and risked, our lives to protect that every day.

    But it’s NOT science, and there’s not one single piece of scientific evidence for it, and until there is, it has NO place in our schools, except in Sunday School, where it’s ALWAYS been.

  6. The Strata-Sphere » America Is Tearing Itself Apart on September 16, 2009 at 8:55 am

    [...] so that they don’t have to negotiate or plat nice with other, lesser human beings). I think Founding Bloggers explained it best: The blog wars are out of control right [...]

  7. A Ninny Moose on September 16, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Michael, aka MPH:

    Do you and Kejda ever get tired trying to carry CJ’s water for him?

  8. davehm on September 16, 2009 at 9:49 am

    CJ has, at best, has become a tool of the left trying to cause discontent among conservative bloggers.
    At the very worst he has indeed lost his mind.

  9. davehm on September 16, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Here’s where you’ll find some of the folks from the old lgf

  10. Jaynie59 on September 16, 2009 at 11:22 am

    If you want to keep defending Charles Johnson I suggest you pay more attention to what he posts.

    He has a post up now about Rifqa Bary that is a blatant and obvious attempt to bait Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller for their involvement in the Bary case.

    It’s obvious that CJ is so incensed by everything Robert and Pamela do that he is willing to throw away any knowledge he ever had about Islam, and he’s more than willing to use a 17 girl to attack them again.

    Also, CJ’s posts about creationism are not about science. It’s about his hatred of Christians. If you don’t believe me, just read the comments in the Bary post. The vast majority of them are trashing the Christian couple who gave Bary shelter when she ran away in fear for her life. In the case of LGF, you can be sure that Charles knows every comment that is posted and agrees with every comment that is posted.

    Why can we all be sure Charles knows and approves of Christian bashing? Because he has banned every single user who even dares to question anything that he says, or disagrees with any other point of view, on LGF.

  11. Aharon on September 16, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Charles is out of his mind. He defended Van Jones who is a blant Mumia Abu Jamal supporter and an Israeli hating Jihadi lover, while he attacked Dr. Robert Spencer for allegedly meeting someone who knows someone who once supported a guy who used to hang with euro-fascists.

    If you think his 15 minutes of Rathergate glory which were derived of ripping off other bloggers and creating a throbbing gif give him “credibility” to do what he does, you are no less of a lunatic than he is.

  12. ECW on September 16, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Frankly, I don’t want to trust a man who so casually calls others racists, fascists, bigots, and neo-Nazi enablers. These are such serious and brutal allegations, yet Charles throws them around cavalierly. In labeling people such things Charles is actually trying to destroy people. Destroy them, ruin them, and devastate their careers. His utter and absolute intolerance of dissent on his blog, his habit of responding personally and nastily, and too often in the voice of a betrayed and spiteful 15 year old girl, and his willingness to “out” people by sharing their personal information is reprehensible.

  13. ECW on September 16, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    “in the words of Rodney King: can’t we all just get along?”

    I appreciate the effort, but this assumes Charles would like to “get along”. I don’t think he cares to. He is embarrassed by his forays with the right and is doing whatever he can to disinfect himself from what he probably sees as a big miscalculation. You might say “Charles has been right about a bunch of stuff”. I would propose he considers himself to have mastadonically wrong in ever drifting rightward.

  14. towerclimber on September 16, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    I too am an ex-LGF’er. The attacks on creationists bothered me, but I said nothing. I let it go. then the personal attacks and smears of those who would deign to simply disagree with that sh*t bucket of a blogger pissed me off.
    THEN when he posted personal information about a blogger he disagreed with so that others could harass and smear them, I drew the line.
    I emailed him and required him to remove me from his blog, then I followed up because I could no longer take him at his word. it’s inexcusable. something straight out of the playbooks of the left wing hate machine.
    Once, he did some good things..now? his mind is circling the toilet and I’ll bet you in 5 years he’ll be voting for the likes of Pelosi.

  15. [...] I had hoped that I could stay out of this fray or at least not have to mention said parties name on my Blog. But it seems that Mr. Charles Foster Johnson has got a serious problem. That problem is collectivism; that is blaming of an entire movement for the misdeeds of a slight few. The whole guilt by association game that the far left tries to play against anyone who disagrees with their politics.  The end for me, is when Charles Johnson said of the owner of Gateway Pundit; that he was a “Borderline illiterate Bigot.” [...]

  16. The Charles Johnson Saga continues | BitsBlog on September 17, 2009 at 8:34 am

    [...] fact of the matter is, Charles is out of his depth.  Delinking Pajamas Media, (whom I also write occasional articles for) was what really caught my attention on all of this.  [...]

  17. Banned 4 Nothing on September 17, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    Charles Johnson is going through some changes, he is out of his depth, as most people are, dealing with the huge issues of the day.

    Johnson was clearly disappointed by the last Presidential election and he blames conservatism. Also, he’s a musician trying to be a webmaster, a blogger and a political scientist, all for free, and it’s a lot of stress for one person.

    I predict Johnson will quit blogging over the next year or so. He’s not enjoying it anymore.

  18. [...] a blog founded by Charles Johnson, started to go off the conservative rails over the past year, many dismissed Johnson’s erratic, obsessive rantings as classic signs of blogger burnout, or a perilously [...]

  19. Dirty Democrats » Little Green Meltdown on September 19, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    [...] Green Meltdown: “Founding Bloggers posted on Charles Johnson’s meltdown today.I appreciate the kind words they wrote about me at [...]

  20. Ted on September 22, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    CJ has always shocked me by his level of ignorance. If you listen to his interviews, you hear a dull, flat, poorly informed person who just regurgitates some talking points.

  21. Ted on September 22, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    I was banned for calling Rick Sanchez of CNN a liar!

  22. Brian Macker on September 23, 2009 at 9:23 am

    I don’t know why anyone would listen to Charles Johnson, a self-avowed white nationalist, in the same sense as his own pronouncement, “And he’s a friend of Richard Spencer, a self-avowed white nationalist.”

    After all Johnson has aligned himself with the Minutemen border patrol, and any presumed or actual racists in that movement.

    Normally I wouldn’t think that such things were any indication of racism but using Johnson’s standards I’d have to consider him an extreme racist.

  23. endotoxin on October 3, 2009 at 1:33 am

    I have also been saddened by what LGF has become, sort of an insular club of people who feel that they have to defend Obama out of some kind of sense of being “above the fray.” Charles is flat out banning people left and right who make any disparaging remarks about Obama even if they are factually based. It is sad to see how far that once great site has fallen. Sad.

  24. Hening on October 14, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    I have been confused about what seems to be a total reversal of ideals at LGF. I posted four or five comments that essentially questioned some of the comments. In a matter of minutes, my account was blocked, my avatar of a medieval knight was criticized (medieval history major), and the same post referred to me as an extremist. No foul language, name calling or rants….just questioning what has happened to that once interesting site. Of course there is no opportunity to answer that accusation or reply to the acolytes. Very fascist tactics from someone who claims to decry that sort of treatment towards others.

  25. [...] meltdown. One moment of startling clarity in last September’s bloggerdammerung was when CJ called Hoft a “borderline illiterate bigot.” If you actually know Jim Hoft, he’s one of the gentlest and most generous souls in the [...]

  26. Chris on January 24, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Just read this post following a link from RS McCain’s site.

    I agree with most of this with couple exceptions:

    1.) Why is it that when GW Bush was president, it was okay to portray “Bush as Hitler” (or for that matter, as Satan or even make serious assassination threats) but one “Obama as Hitler” sign at a tea party (which, IMO, is a LOT more applicable analogy that the GWB case) suddenly everyone wets themselves with “disgust” over all this vile hatred. I have a suggestion on the reason. Because BHO is Black. There. I said it.
    2.) RS McCain stating that white people have a natural aversion to inter-racial marriage is racist? No, he is just stating a fact. Boom, there it is. Discuss it all you want but executing the messenger is clear “stick your head in the sand” denial (“we don’t want to talk about it! It’s too horrible!)


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